Ok, Let’s talk about #hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (#FCEV) as an alternative to Battery Electric Vehicles (#BEV).

A FCEV uses the same electric motors as BEVs but gets its power from chemically reacting H₂ with O₂ from the air in a way that produces an electric current - a fuel cell. None of this is new technology Fuel Cells were a mature and reliable power source by the time the Apollo program was landing people on the moon. The issue with fuel cells is the same as with Enteral Combustion Engines(ICE) they are most efficient in a very narrow energy band great if the goal is to power the life support on a space craft, but not for the extremely variable loads needed to drive a car.

For this reason, FCEVs are hybrids with the same Li batteries as BEVs and ICE Hybrids like the Prius. Like ICE Hybrids they use the battery to accelerate and as storage for regenerative breaking with the fuel cell providing a constant recharge.

Why I’m skeptical of FCEVs

1) Greenwashing Hydrogen. FCEV advocates will point out that the only tailpipe emission is water vapor. The question is where does the hydrogen come from. By far the least expensive way to produce hydrogen gas is to crack the hydrogen atoms off of petrochemical hydrocarbons. As a mater of basic chemistry it takes far less energy to crack hydrocarbons than it does to electrolize water. And unlike the electrical grid where technologies like solar, wind and nuclear are already deployed and becoming an increasing share of our electric grid. Processes to produce hydrogen from water at anything close the the cost to strip it off fossil fuels is in the same development stage as cold fusion. at least for the next decade green hydrogen will be a premium product only available to the wealthiest buyers.

2) Hydrogen storage is hard. To fit enough hydrogen on a moving passenger car for it to have a 300 mile range requires pressures of 10,000psi (700 bar). The kinds of pressure vessels that can safely handle that pressure are expensive, and need regular inspection. Having had to keep a compressed air tank of just 200 psi in a fixed certified, I can tell you that there will be significant costs to regularly inspecting a 10,000 psi tank full of flammable gas that needs to survive a collision with one of the 2023 lineup of full sized puck up trucks.

But that is just the start. Hydrogen leaks. No matter how good you think your valves and fittings are the smallest molecule in the universe stored under huge pressure will find a way out. Ask anyone who has experience in the space industry where hydrogen is already the fuel of choice and they will tell you that hydrogen leaks are just a fact that has to be engineered around. On a vehicle this will be a small annoyance but at a fueling station this will be significant. The farther Hydrogen is transported and the longer it must be stored the higher the losses. There is also the energy factor of compressing that gas. To the best of my knowledge the prodigious amount of work done to pressurize the fuel is never recovered

FCEVs and BEVs both started to be produced about a decade ago, and while Tesla has scaled out its supercharger network world wide in that time. Hydrogen has less than 100 filling stations all in California. While these stations can fill a car in 5 minutes, they can only fill 2 to 5 vehicles before spending an hour refilling their high pressure storage tanks. One could argue that all Hydrogen needs is an eccentric billionaire ready to lose money for a decade building out infrastructure, however I think the infrastructure challenges with hydrogen exceed even Musk levels of ambition.

3) Cost. My M3 already costs noticeably less per mile that the equivalent ICE vehicle. Baring a huge technological leap, hydrogen will always be more expensive. because the least expensive hydrogen is processed out of the same fuel that runs ICE cars and provides less energy per molecule than those hydrocarbons when reacted with O₂ hydrogen cannot help but be a more expensive fuel.

So why are hydrogen FCEV still a thing? Well the vehicles are lighter, fueling times are comparable to gasoline, and the petrochemical industry is desperate for them to succeed. The oil industry can see the writing on the wall as states like California will ban new ICE vehicle sales in 2030. While holding out hope for a green hydrogen future a generation away, they can continue to have a market for their product as gasoline and diesel phase out. “Hydrogen will become the green fuel of the future” explain their sock puppets knowing that dirty hydrogen from their product will always have a price advantage. And to be fair, turning a mobile source into a point source of emissions does provide the opportunity for carbon capture (so called Blue Hydrogen), but all this still add even more cost while BEVs already have a price advantage in their fuel - not to mention that every home in the developed world has the infrastructure to charge BEVs.

Why write all this? Because when you get down to it most of the #FUD being spread around #EV s is coming from FCEV advocates who are trying not to let hydrogen become the betamax of the transition away from ICE transportation. In doing so they are making it harder than necessary for the world to move away from ICE transportation.

References:
https://www.thedrive.com/tech/33408/why-we-still-cant-deliver-on-the-promise-of-hydrogen-cars

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a41103863/hydrogen-cars-fcev/

Tags:
#GreenHydrogen #BlueHydrogen #ClimateCrisis #fossilefuel #greenwashing #Tesla #Toyota #Mirai #electrolysis

Beware people talking clean hydrogen, they are the ones who brought you clean coal
https://reneweconomy.com.au/beware-people-talking-clean-hydrogen-they-are-the-one-who-brought-you-clean-coal/

"Clean Coal" is a furphy, and it's looking like "Clean Hydrogen" is unattainable. In reality, practically all hydrogen made today is extracted from fossil fuels, or is made from water by electrolysis that's powered by a non-renewable source of electricity.

Some people talk about "Blue hydrogen" and claim they're cracked the secret of making it in commercial volumes at a price that's competitive with renewables, but they're not being honest with you about the cost or the quality of their product. Proponents claim that coal — such as Victoria's incredibly dirty, low-quality, high-pollutant brown coal — can be transformed into "Brown Hydrogen" or "Black Hydrogen" by capturing the carbon liberated during the hydrogen extraction process using Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS). Same goes for "Blue Hydrogen" that's extracted from fossil gas.
They're sorta correct, in the sense that you can get out hydrogen. But if you blink you'll miss seeing where the Carbon goes. By then, they'll attempt to scratch off the label to rebrand their dirty hydrogen as "Green Hydrogen".

Herein lies the scam: they're saying is can be done cleanly. The problem is that they're using CSS as part of the process. It would be nice if CCS worked at an industrial scale at any price, but it doesn't. Countless millions of dollars have been poured by governments around the world into CCS pilot-plants at fossil fuel companies. The fossil fuel companies have all pocketed the money and failed to produce results.

Scratch the surface of any hydrogen-bro, and you'll find a hydrocarbon-bro who's deliberately propping-up the unsustainable coal/gas/petrol industry or is an unwitting fool who's science-illiterate.

#AusPol #ElectrifyEverything #Renewables #FossilGas #Hydrogen #CleanHydrogen #GreenHydrogen #BlueHydrogen #BlackHydrogen #BrownHydrogen #CarbonCaptureAndStorage #CCS

🇳🇱 Apparently they are going to make blue hydrogen instead of grey hydrogen in Rotterdam.

The captured CO2 is going to the Porthos project. That project is going to pump 2,5 million ton CO2 down into an old gas field. Quite a lot.

What do we think of that? Blue is better than grey, but green would have been even better.

#BlueHydrogen #Rotterdam #Porthos

Germany commits to ‘blue hydrogen’ in updated national strategy https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/germanys-updated-hydrogen-strategy-new-commitment-to-fossil-based-hydrogen/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=mastodon #bluehydrogen #electrolysers #Germany #Greenhydrogen #hydrogen

Regardless of what you think of #hydrogen's potential as a technology, the reality is that it's nothing but a delaying tactic by the #FossilFuel industry, along with #CarbonCapture. #BlueHydrogen should not even be on the table.

The fossil fuel industry's goal is to pollute the discourse so that they can extract as much value as they can from their existing investments. And the only way they can do that is by digging all the carbon they've found out of the ground. And that carbon is going to end up in the air. Even if we capture it, that's carbon capture that could have been used to remove carbon that's already been emitted.

#BlueHydrogen is a blatant attempt to get us pumping even more dollars into petro states. We must be smarter than that.
https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/production/saudi-aramco-struggling-to-find-buyers-for-its-blue-hydrogen-due-to-high-costs/2-1-1449004

Opinion: Renewable energy gathered through non-green processes such as blue hydrogen should be considered in areas where green form is not available as any kind of reduction in emmisions is a good thing, but they should be priced right to give significant incentives to migrate on green hydrogen.

#EU #EUPolitics #politics #green #ecology #hydrogen #bluehydrogen #greenhydrogen #opinion

"Report: Blue hydrogen accounts for more than 80% of UK’s hydrogen pipeline"

#UK #UnitedKingdom #Energy #Hydrogen #BlueHydrogen

https://www.edie.net/report-blue-hydrogen-accounts-for-more-than-80-of-uks-hydrogen-pipeline/

"Wind, water and solar energy is cheap, effective and green. We don’t need experimental or risky energy sources to save our planet"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/07/climate-crisis-miracle-technology-wind-water-solar

by Prof. Mark Z. Jacobson.
More from Jacobson: https://twitter.com/mzjacobson

#EnergyTransition #ClimateCrisis #CCS #Geoengineering #BlueHydrogen #NuclearPower

1/2

"Blue hydrogen: UK developers should aim for 95% carbon capture rate, EA states"

#UK #UnitedKingdom #Hydrogen #BlueHydrogen #CarbonCapture

https://www.edie.net/blue-hydrogen-uk-developers-should-aim-for-95-carbon-capture-rate-ea-states/

"Blue hydrogen: UK developers should aim for 95% carbon capture rate, EA states"

#UK #UnitedKingdom #Hydrogen #BlueHydrogen #CarbonCapture

https://www.edie.net/blue-hydrogen-uk-developers-should-aim-for-95-carbon-capture-rate-ea-states/

>Hydrogen fuel could double your energy bills - and isn’t as green as you think, research warns
#Hydrogen
#GrayHydrogen
#GreyHydrogen
#BlueHydrogen
#GreenHydrogen
#ClimateCrisis
#FossilFuels
#Emissions https://go.squidapp.co/n/epi60rk
via SQUID App https://squidapp.page.link/vNb8

Australia and Japan are working together on a new #CCS hub, which could include #BlueHydrogen

#GreenHydrogen a niche fuel. #BlueHydrogen disaster for #ClimateAction! #Wind #Water #Solar #Battery #Geothermal work best. @CanadianPM @POTUS @BillNye @cafreeland @VP @ABDanielleSmith @RachelNotley @MayorHyggen @350 @albertaNDP @AB_AgainstUCP @Alberta_UCP https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ese3.956

Energy prospects blow hot and cold

By Douglas Fraser

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-64116488

#scotland #uk #wind #energy #greenhydrogen #hydrogen #bluehydrogen #electricity #fuel #petrol

What a scam! And the #Canadian govt is all over it. #BigOil has totally captured #cdnpoli. #blueHydrogen #ClimateBreakdown https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/2022/11/13/why-justin-trudeaus-blue-hydrogen-dream-as-an-energy-alternative-for-canada-is-not-really-green.html

What a scam! And the #Canadian govt is all over it. #BigOil has totally captured #cdnpoli. #blueHydrogen #ClimateBreakdown https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/2022/11/13/why-justin-trudeaus-blue-hydrogen-dream-as-an-energy-alternative-for-canada-is-not-really-green.html

Things I dislike.
#greenwashing and #sportwashing If you do it, own it.
Government and business collusion, or to give it is right name #corruption
The bile, #racism and hate delivered daily by the #s*n torygraft and expurge. I can't bring myself to mention the other #fascist rag.
#bluehydrogen I mean WTF let's pretend that #fossilfuel is ok if we rebrand it.
#Carbon offset. Really?

fairly sure this paper is telling us to forget #blueHydrogen. Even natural gas is preferable... @ProfBahaj https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666955222000090 h/t @janrosenow

#ScottishPower to build £150m #GreenHydrogen plant at Port of #Felixstowe | #HydrogenPower | The Guardian

There has been a big increase in the interest of the use of #HydrogenEnergy over the past few years but it is only meaning as a combat against #GreenhouseGases if it is produced using #RenewableEnergy. Most #Hydrogen currently is produced using #FossilFuels as so-called #BlueHydrogen which is a huge source of #Emissions of #CarbonDioxide.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/08/scottishpower-build-150m-green-hydrogen-plant-port-felixstowe

#Environment #UK