I get it. I get that having your corner of the internet break away from the rest is a MASSIVE pain in the ass. It feels even worse when, as far as you can tell, the issue has been handled. "Laurelai/Slaanesh isn't in charge anymore. She can't do more harm, and she deserves a chance to be part of this community."

What I think you all need to understand is that this isn't just someone who said shitty things or did a racism and has since apologized. From what we can gather, she's been accused of using a platform much like this one as a means of collecting SA victims. Coming around to a newly-popular social media platform — one used largely by queer people, mind you — and forming a community of her own under a pseudonym is, to put it bluntly, a REALLY suspicious thing for someone with that kind of history to do.

I can't say for certain if Kolektiva's original "crusade" against 8pt was based in transphobia. But I do know that once the true identity of #Slaanesh was uncovered, it became a matter of keeping OTHER QUEER PEOPLE safe from one queer person who happened to be problematic. If you need any further indication that this isn't fueled by transphobia, just look at tech.lgbt's response! Their MAJORITY-TRANS modmin team decided to defederate because they wanted to keep their people from interacting with a known predator.

The LGBTQIA+ community is one that values consent and safety. After all, we've been repeatedly violated in BOTH of those regards on a systemic scale. We're assaulted, verbally and physically abused, and generally treated as second-class citizens for loving and living authentically. It's extremely important for us to work AGAINST this sort of abuse, and it's even MORE vital to do so when it happens within our own community.

As a minority group with these values, not to mention one that has been consistently held down with accusations of being sexual predators, I would expect that we would be more harshly and vehemently opposed to giving such people a second chance. The fact that we have people trying to welcome an ACTUAL offender back into the community is the crux of the issue.

There is no "restorative justice" to be had here. Someone who was poised to abuse a position of power was ousted from that position, and from the community in which she held that position. For said community to then say "actually, come on back in, but you can't be an admin anymore" is absolutely absurd. It totally disregards the safety of those who don't know who LB is, who don't know her history.

I know I'm going to be accused of spreading #FUD about a trans woman, which is fucking ridiculous because I AM one. But it's important to acknowledge that there are bad actors in ANY group of people. The vast majority of queer people aren't abusers, but there can be and are exceptions, and LB is likely one of them. We can't come to her defense just because she's one of us.

So to summarize:

⋄ Kolektiva's unmasking of Slaanesh, even if not INITIALLY well-intentioned, was not ultimately based in transphobia. I don't doubt there were SOME people involved with that goal in mind, but that doesn't make the situation they uncovered any less serious.

⋄ tech.lgbt's decision to defederate after #eightpoint modmins refused to oust LB entirely is ALSO not based in transphobia, obviously. Said decision was made by a panel of mostly trans people.

⋄ I am questioning the judgment and intentions of anyone who things LB should be forgiven and kept around. Trans or not, she is a known danger to those with whom she tries to interact, and I do not believe that knowingly allowing her to do so is the right decision here.

⋄ I recognize that banning her allows her to just make another pseudonym and rejoin the Fediverse elsewhere…but she would be able to do this ANYWAY. At least by publicly disallowing her return, 8pt would be taking a stance. Instead they insist that she deserves a second chance if she wants one, and that's not okay with me.

⋄ I do not blame anyone who was already on eightpoint.app and who wishes to stay there for their own subset of the community, but I would STRONGLY discourage Mastodon/Fediverse newcomers from joining that instance.

#fediblock #defederation #kolektiva #techlgbt #drama

My personal stance on #Eightpointapp RE: #techlgbt defed

We are a small server, but I was asked about this, so here we go.

I once stopped going to a coffee shop for 3 years because I was fed a nothing sandwich by internet outrage. Ever since I have been very careful with blanket decisions, especially when they impact others.

Most defeds I've done have been for trolls or Nazis.

We were all done with this situation back when the user was removed from their administrative post at #Eightpoint and left the server.

I want to be utterly clear, Laurelai Bailey is a bad person. She is not welcome on coop.lol now or at any point in the future. The amount of drama involving her across the internet is absolutely ludicrous for someone so unnoteworthy.

Incoming a super brief rundown. She has had allegations of SA placed against her. She has levied claims of libel against those accusers. In both situations, potential victims have made their decision to not pursue legal recourse. Clearly the truth must lie somewhere in the murky middle there, where only the people present actually know for certain what happened.

She has also been known to be an FBI informant. She was a mod for r/antiwork and r/ContraPoints and was removed following information that determined who she was.

I am not aware of any servers that she is currently on. If that changes, discussions will be held and a decision will be made then, not before. Anything short of that is harmful to the community at large.

cc: @12

tech.lgbt is doing the wrong thing defederating from 8p. This will not make tech.lgbt users safer, it will only create drama and undermine the fediverse.

#techlgbt #defederation #eightpoint

In short, because #Eightpoint refuse to block a former admin, outed as a serial rapist from their instance. This harbouring of a sexual predator is putting their community and the wider #fediverse at risk, which goes against #techlgbt's standards for safety & ethics.

I personally agree with the defederating, and think until Eightpoint take a firm public stance against these kinds of things, other instances should follow Tech's lead.

https://tech.lgbt/@mods/109859234105285365

So I hadn’t been following the #eightpoint and #TechLGBT thing, but having read some of the exchange and the emails that are given I just feel that there’s an odd understanding of ‘Restorative Justice’. And having read the book, “On Repentance and Repair” (a Jewish approach) I feel like the *actual* victims of the perpetrator maybe haven’t been involved as much as they should be?
#EightPointApp

looks like our total users here on #eightpoint are going up again, that's nice to see. To those who just signed up, welcome! :inanna:

#eightpoint currently has 804 active users, most of whom are transgender women.

It's not an accident that people want the place to be seen as "not safe" and a haven for hate even after they defenestrated Laurelai Bailey all-but immediately after she was identified.

Laurelai Baley is a Federal informant whose literal job is to destabilize the trans fem community.

She lied to #eightpoint about who she was. She mislead trans women into thinking she could moderate a place that was safe for trans women. SHE lied. SHE was the bad actor.

If you're still holding her participation against eightpoint, you're doing COINTELPRO shit to your own community and you need to fucking stop.

how some members of the #eightpoint have behaved reminded me so much of my abusive ex.

Hey can someone give me an update on what's going down with #eightpoint?

When it looked like they were going to collapse, I was sounding people out for creating a new instance for users to flee to, but now it doesn't seem like that's necessary? But I'm hearing it still may be?

If there's a whole new mod team, I don't see why eightpoint needs to die, that's as much re-invention and self-correction as anyone can ask of anyone in the fediverse, it seems to me.

I am unsure what happened with #EightPoint (I believe someone known to be problematic is rumoured to be an ex-mod??) but the idea of encouraging people to block/dismiss transfeminine people seems familiar and dodgy.

I'm not saying the campaign targeting eight point is definitely #transphobic but what I am saying is that I think we need to be super careful where such allegations & urges to defederate come from.

I swear this entire incident with #eightpoint is making me want to turn my toy #ActivityPub project into a reality. It's a massive amount of work to do that, but… it is so so needed.

We need tools that are safe by design and that help prevent this sort of campaign from working in the first place. The current fediverse just isn't there for preventing that attack mode and to the extent we don't see it here it is because of history and a few structural elements, not because it's impossible.

Yeesh, #eightpoint was going to be one of my other go-to instances if mastodon.lol didn't work out. Hearing that they're likely shielding an abuser is as much a dealbreaker for me as it is for most of you.

Guess I'll see y'all on Kolektiva or wherever else you jump to

Being trans in this world too often feels like being in a war, constantly struggling to survive in a world that is hostile to us. #Eightpoint has been like what I imagine shore leave to be, a place for all of us to step away from the war & relax, to just let ourselves live for a while before going back to the fight. And though I have only been here for a couple of weeks, the people who make up this instance have already made my life so much better than it ever was before. So thank you to all of you who are in this fight with me, & I hope you can all find your safety as well 💜​

Is #eightpoint down?

the drama about the #eightpoint situation is so confusing I have no idea who to believe in summarizing the situation, I'm just upset that I can't follow people on there anymore :(

#kf #eightpoint #kolektiva #fediblock #kiwifarms

What the fuck kind of circle did I fall into, where I'm seeing this whole #eightpoint vs#Kolektiva thing??? Now there's defederation and whatnot. Do I need to move to a different server?! I like this place. I'm overwhelmed :emo:

#kf #eightpoint #kolektiva #fediblock #kiwifarms

I have been dealing with tweetlike drama-fuel pseudo-discourse on mastodon.

If you like to posit accusations without evidence,

Especially if those accusations align with things kiwifarms is saying,

Then you are either a dupe, a fraud, or a troll.

Keep that shit off my fedi. Go back to twit, you twits.

#eightpoint #Kollektiva #drama